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Pros and cons on groups

Discussion in 'The Main Board' started by twp, Jul 27, 2018.

  1. twp

    twp Moderator Staff Member Survival Class Instructor

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    The author of this article presents her views on prepper groups.

    Prepper Networking In Good Times And Bad - Survival Sullivan

    You don't have to agree with all of her points, in fact, I disagree with a few, but overall I think these are valuable to know. Certainly they give some ideas on planning your own prepping.

    In a nutshell, the loner faces so many disadvantages that they outweigh the possible problems which go with a community of preppers.
     
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  2. Atlas

    Atlas Administrator Staff Member Survival Class Instructor

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    I agree that loners are at a slight disadvantage, but I also feel like trying to reach the preppers nirvana of a group that has one person of each skill type all perfectly lined up like ducklings is counter-productive and has probably led to more people's prepper burn out than any other one thing.

    If a group of friends and family all work together to offer aid and help in times of need is all that you have you are not doing so bad. This is actually my preferred path and what I recommend for newbies.
     
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  3. twp

    twp Moderator Staff Member Survival Class Instructor

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    I tend to agree, that a predefined group plan has some major disadvantages. These tend to ignore the personal dynamics needed for a group to work well together. While the idea of a "chinese restaurant" menu, where you can pick one from column A and one from column B, etc. may sound good in theory... There are too many other variables which need to be considered.

    Friends and family have, usually, already worked through the interpersonal stuff, before they felt a need to become preppers. That is a huge load taken off of a group at a time when they are trying to learn how to work together.
     
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  4. hypnos

    hypnos Active Member Survival Class Instructor

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    I am skeptical that the loner has the disadvantage. I think either approach has enough pros and cons to balance out. And I can tell you why...

    Of course if you know several people that are like minded and very trustworthy then you have it made, and I can easily see why you would come to that conclusion. I, however do not, and what follows is a general outline I experienced with a "preparedness" group.

    Roughly 2 years ago I met a man at work who seemed to align himself with my
    Viewpoints on the state of our nation, what it is. How it should be, and 2A related topics. He had formed a group, and invited me to their area for a training day. I accepted.

    He was supposed to be the experienced one, and set up a course of fire with a several targets, the last target had a barn DIRECTLY behind it, he was following me like an RO and was screaming "shoot!" "SHOOOOOOT" i immediately responded be lowering my rifle, and switching the safety back on...I pointed to the target, and said, there is a god***m barn behind it, with a house nearby! He said "oh, yeah
    ...it would be fine if you were using your handgun." I was more than a little ticked off, i moved his target for the next person to prevent an ND and the next shooter came on line.

    This guy starts telling him to holster his firearm after every target, the guy dutifully complies, and while attempting to run, follow instructions, and engage targets he NDs his gun while attempting to holster, so close it puts powder burns on his jeans. Now, i don't know about you, but in every excercise like this I have seen you point your handgun down range, and run to the next target with your finger off the trigger...that way your RO can quickly DQ you for a proceedural if he sees the muzzle rise where it isn't supposed to, or sees a finger in the trigger gaurd...
    At any rate, needless to say, I NEVER, got together with that group again. The leader was a inept and negligent idiot, who was as stupid as he was dangerous.

    But, it didn't end at that point.

    He later told me he got into some trouble in his past when he was a security gaurd, he worked with a police officer, and they had confiscated weapons that never went into evidence. He was caught, and rolled on his accomplice.

    After he had invited me to attend one of their little meetings and i declined once again, he became angry, and became even a little threatening "be careful..." he said to which i replied "you too! Don't forget, I've seen you shoot!" (The guy COULD not shoot worth a crap.)
    At any rate, i hope my experience hasn't been typical, its people like this who give gun ownership a very bad name. I'm better off alone than with those type of yahoos.
     
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  5. twp

    twp Moderator Staff Member Survival Class Instructor

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    while your statement: "I'm better off alone than with those type of yahoos" may be true with respect to a particular group of "yahoos", you may still be better off with a group. It's the type of group, and its mindset, which make a group better or worse. Your story supports this.

    I've had less than enjoyable encounters with groups, one of which I actually belonged to for a few years. There are bound to be disagreements in how a group works among its members. I left the most recent group because my approach to prepping was not in line with their leadership...

    I would still consider a prepper group in a crisis, but haven't found one which fits my mindset. Until then, I will not be exactly a loner, since I have a family group and a few select friends, but I think I want to work with more people, more skills spread among a larger number of preppers.
     
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  6. hypnos

    hypnos Active Member Survival Class Instructor

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    Depending on the circumstances, you bet. It's hard to be alone purely for psychological reasons, add to that injury or illness and the survival rate drops. But, if you need to keep a low profile, and have limited resources with you or in the wild and I don't see it being easier with a group. I wouldn't want more than 4 people, to me that is about ideal for most situations.
     
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  7. hypnos

    hypnos Active Member Survival Class Instructor

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    Definitely with you 100% who your group is beats numbers for sure. How did you differ with the leadership exactly? What got in the way?
     
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  8. twp

    twp Moderator Staff Member Survival Class Instructor

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    I'll stick with my preference for enough people to cover the needed skill sets for living through whatever crisis is happening. I do admit that I plan for a long term crisis. Short term... I'll make do with who and what is around me. That may mean being a "loner" for the short term.
     
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  9. twp

    twp Moderator Staff Member Survival Class Instructor

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    I'll leave it at that. I expect to run into some of the members as life goes on and I'd rather not name names and point fingers. It was a basic disagreement on what being a prepper includes.
     
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  10. hypnos

    hypnos Active Member Survival Class Instructor

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    I hate to pry, I'm just trying to get a feel for the membership and the audience I'm writing to/for. I don't care for names, or blame. Can I ask, what does being a prepper include for you it did not with others? PM me if you are concerned. I see you are a Moderator, and so I assume to learn more about the forum and what it is thru its "leadership" for lack of a better term.
     
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  11. twp

    twp Moderator Staff Member Survival Class Instructor

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    My prepping involves watching the world situation, not limited to just prepper events. That includes how we interact with social media, software, operating systems and big business. I admit to being (very) opinionated about some things and also willing to call someone out on what they say.

    I'll ask you to bear in mind that, while I am a moderator on this site, I haven't been here long enough to know many of the members and viceversa. This site is also just getting a reboot from a period of inactivity. Hence many of the original members are still in "lurk" mode or have moved on to other pastures. I'm working with the site owner to build back membership... So thanks for posting :D
     
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  12. Atlas

    Atlas Administrator Staff Member Survival Class Instructor

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    This topic got good all of the sudden.

    The problem with groups is that there are so many different ways to do this, leaving things open for misunderstandings and false hope, only to come to a head at a later date.

    I too have been involved with several groups. A couple I tried to start myself. A couple others I was asked to join. They all ended fairly bad, not because of what any one person did, but more based on how differently people think about the same subjects.

    Usually when a group is forming they are started with intentions of being one thing. After a few members join the desire to bring in more leads to lowering the standards, maybe that's not the right word, but let's say the vision starts to get cloudy. After a while, the initial concept is so watered down that no one really knows what is going on, which leads to people assuming that they know what's going on. We all know what assuming does for the situation.

    From there all it takes is one bad incident and everyone goes there separate ways.

    Now that I have travelled down this rocky path I think differently. My survival group is my friends and family. I trust them, they trust me. We work together as a team already anyways, so there doesn't have to be much effort there. It is not nearly as formal, but I believe we are just as ready as any other group out there.
     
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  13. lonewolf

    lonewolf Well-Known Member

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    I have tried to start groups in the past but they all tend to fall apart, apathy, lack of commitment, job change, moving house etc. all groups will fail long before TSHTF for these and other reasons.
     
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  14. Atlas

    Atlas Administrator Staff Member Survival Class Instructor

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    That was my experience as well.
     
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  15. twp

    twp Moderator Staff Member Survival Class Instructor

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    Sounds like the group cohesion will fall back to the leadership. They are responsible for keeping a group together. It should not be the leadership alone, who suggests new members. That is a group responsibility.

    Recruiting for new members, to replace those who leave, is an important part of being a Prepper group. The group members need to agree on each prospective candidate (vetting) AND that candidate would then need to be approached carefully, to avoid risk to the group OPSEC.
     
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  16. lonewolf

    lonewolf Well-Known Member

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    i'm called lonewolf for a reason:cool:
     
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  17. twp

    twp Moderator Staff Member Survival Class Instructor

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    I expect, in an EOTW type crisis, that we will see many "loners". Some will be preppers, but will be outnumbered by non-prepped loners. This has happened in recent history, a big example being our (US) market collapse of 1929. The number of "loners" was huge, mostly from those who lived in cities. Those who lived in the country were usually some what better prepared for a crisis.

    Here in the US, there remains a large number of homeless, even if the news reports that our economy is "recovering"... Sadly, those homeless tend to congregate in the cities, where food is easier to find.
     
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  18. hypnos

    hypnos Active Member Survival Class Instructor

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    I talked to my friends about it (back when i thought I had friends) as most of them where gun owners. No one cared that much. Some of the others had some type of "commando" type of bend, they didn't really care about being prepared with food and water, or other supplies. It was mainly, a chest rig, ar15, and a vp9. And a strong desire to "be in the sh*t". It's kind of hard to watch guys with grey hair and big bellies try to live out some fantasy at the least, or at the worst train like idiots to be predators if the SHTF.

    Nothing wrong with scenario training (when it makes sense) and nothing wrong with a chest rig, ar15 and a vp9, more power to you, but combining those elements with crazy talk, and lack of interest for other preparation is worrisome to me, a total red flag.

    If I joined a group now, the first assessment I would make is the overall mental stability and intelligence of its members. Then a discussion of the skills and interests they ACTUALLY possess. Next, political and religious views. In my last experience, it was the leadership that lacked real stability or intelligence. The rest where great people, who where allot of fun, one guy ruined it.
    When you consider events like georgetown with cult leaders having everyone drink the koolaid, it isn't too hard to imagine what would happen to a group of great people with very poor leadership.
    Because it is so hard to maintain membership, and our political climate so unstable with media and social attacks on freedom daily, the better option may be avoidance of nutters, and prepping FOR people that may actually be useful in a catastrophe. It doesn't have to cost an arm and a leg. A bug out bag with all your old gear, a shotgun and bandoliers, a radio, and a couple cases of 00buck may be enough to turn a liability to asset.

    One thing I was considering is a ROE/SOP for preparedness.

    A guy and myself who where into prepping had an agreement if things went crazy, to meet at a local gun range. There we would trade information if need be, have a place to put messages, or recieve help if one of us had to wait at that location. No one is going to blink if they see an armed person at the rifle range. And it is highly unlikely to me that during a disaster anyone would even be there. "Walmart" is most peoples idea of disaster planning when anything happens.
    I think that is a good SOP, rifle range in your local city, sunday afternoon. Etc. And a coffee can behind the building to toss a message or a radio in may be all you need.
     
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  19. twp

    twp Moderator Staff Member Survival Class Instructor

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    ROE/SOP is an acronym for what? We have a few non-military here, including myself.

    I like the rifle range meeting point. Very unlikely to be used in a crisis.
     
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  20. hypnos

    hypnos Active Member Survival Class Instructor

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    I think the most practical approach is also the safest. You may not want somone who finds their way to your group, suddenly on your doorstep during a calamity who exhibits allot of agression and wants to go on a grid down shopping spree.
     
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